November/December 2004 Living Now
At Hell’s Gate, An Interview with Claude Anshin Thomas

by Connie Hill

Claude Anchin Thomas was a veteran of the war in Viet Nam who was awarded numerous medals and saw thousands killed. On returning home Thomas found he continued to live in a state of war and was overwhelmed by guilt, anger and sorrow. In 1990 he met Thich Nhat Hanh and began his Buddhist practice. Now he is a Zen monk and teacher, and has written his story in At Hell’s Gate. Claude travels 260-265 days per year for his work, and since 1994 has walked about 15,000 miles in pilgrimage.

Connie: Why did you wanted to write this book.

Claude: I didn’t. I was approached by an agent who’d become aware of my work. He works with people who do "intrinsically important work for the world social structure." We sent the manuscript to 20 publishers and 2 were interested. We made the choice to go with Shambhala because I had a sense the editor didn’t have an interest in changing my voice and she liked my writing.

Connie: What is your connection with Portland?

Claude: I’ve visited Portland the last six years. I work in the penitentiaries with veterans of the Viet Nam and other wars.

My first contact with other veterans was at a retreat for veterans with Thich Nhat Hanh in 1990. As a result I ended up going to France and living and studying in the monastery for three years. Buddhist practice was beneficial to me.

Another influential person for me, Maxine Hong Kingston, had a grant to work with writing and Viet Nam veterans. Writing became a tool to give veterans voice to their voicelessness. We used writing as a meditation to begin to tell the stories that we couldn’t tell. I’ve continued to do work with former soldiers. My own work began from stopping the use of alcohol. When I stopped taking intoxicants a social worker got me in contact with Thich Nhat Hanh and Buddhist practices: my next natural step.

I found that war is not an external event. The roots of war exist in each of us and are hidden in the conditioning from our family and social and cultural experiences. Buddhist practice helps me become conscious of that conditioning so I can deconstruct. Then healing and transformation can take place. Healing is not something that I can facilitate. Healing is only something I can prepare the ground for it to take place. I’m clear that healing is not the absence of pain and suffering. It is rather learning to live in a conscious relationship with pain and suffering. It’s not possible without a rooted, disciplined, spiritual practice.

Connie: Why did you start doing pilgrimages?

Claude: I never liked walking, but it was brought to my attention that there was this pilgrimage going from Auschwitz to Hiroshima and it would pass through Viet Nam. I had a clear understanding that this would be a very important method for me to return to Viet Nam. So I was ordained at Auschwitz by Bernie Baisen Tetsugen Roshi or Bernie Glassman, who is Jewish and had never been to Auschwitz. My first pilgrimage became a vehicle of contact with his own history and my ordination became the vehicle for him to make that contact. Since then I’ve walked four major pilgrimages, 1000 miles or more.

Connie: You’re away from home more than two thirds of each year. Boy to be away that much feels very difficult to me.

Claude: I’m not away. I’m just where I am. I don’t have an attachment to place. I’m attempting to develop a center in a small town named Mary Esther, Florida. It is a neighboring community to Fort Walton Beach which is the major city between Panama City and Pensacola. The property is in the midst of 4 major military bases. Eglin Air Force Base, Hurlburt Field, Duke Field and an army ranger training facility. At night when we sit, we can hear the bombs and machine guns they train with. It is like being in a war zone. We sit and we practice.

Connie: Do you see that your being there as bringing light to the area?

Claude: I have no idea. I do know that I am quite clear in my commitment and understanding that violence is never a solution, never! It’s a choice that people think they make, but it’s simply not a solution. Violence only leads to more violence. It’s the law of cause and effect, which is an essential Buddhist teaching.

Connie: Since it’s election time we hear so much from the candidates about the war and what they will do. What do you have to say about that?

Claude: My understanding is quite clear--violence is not a solution. Now, I’m not a politician, I’m a Buddhist monk. But how do we work skillfully with the conditions as they exist now? The reality of what I talk about is that violence is never over. It’s not that you fight a war, the war ends and it’s done. The consequences of those actions are forever. In this political climate you can still see the unresolved issues that exist concerning Viet Nam and the Second World War. These issues are still dominant in people’s minds and they are trying to make sense out of something that you can’t make sense out of.

Connie: I don’t see how my meditation will stop the war.

Claude: It won’t. That part of meditation that is silence and reflection brings me in contact with the war that is in me. That, I can stop. When I begin to heal it, it also has a reverberating effect so as I heal, then the world around me also begins to heal. I have a responsibility to stand up in the face of lying and manipulating and these sorts of issues. How to do that skillfully is never a programmed matter. Healing only manifests itself if I’m able to be in contact with my own suffering, not blame the other but be present in front of them. I can’t change anyone else. I can only create the circumstances where change can take place.

Connie: Thank you, Claude.

Join Claude Anshin Thomas at New Renaissance Bookshop on Friday, November 12 at 7:30 pm for his talk "At Hell’s Gate." Call 503-224-4929, visit the store or visit www.newrenbooks.com to register.

Connie Hill works at New Renaissance Bookshop and a local astrologer. She can be reached at 971-244-0567 ext 2 or gmnite@yahoo.com.