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July/August 2003 Living Now
Passionate Presence, An Interview with Catherine Ingram

by Connie Hill

Spiritual teacher, Catherine Ingram, leads Dharma Dialogues around the US and internationally. She has written two books, In The Footsteps of Gandhi and her newest, Passionate Presence. She is a follower of Punjaji.

Connie : Catherine, how did you get started in this business?

Catherine: Well, I had a difficult childhood. What can I say? I tried all of the worldly offerings: power, money, sex and I was left empty. I was a spiritual seeker from the time I was 12. At 17, I was reading Asian philosophy. At 22, I was practicing Buddhist meditation and setting-up retreats around the world.

Connie : When did you meet Punjaji?

Catherine: I studied and practiced Buddhism for 17 years. When I met Punjaji all sense of seeking fell away and I felt very plugged into this sense of presence. It was rich and beautiful, even with all the horror that happens in life. The beauty of it is that you start to know that there is a steadiness to just this simple taste of presence, no matter what else is happening or how hard life becomes.

Connie: Tell me what a person's "story" is all about.

Catherine: What I mean when I say "story" is the rap you wake up with. You get up and pretty soon the "story" starts and it's all about me. Everything in the world is interpreted through the story of me. You begin to think of yourself as the star in your own soap opera. It's a continual fixation on the likes, the dislikes, the disappointments, the triumphs and the trials of me. The problem with the story of me is that it is very burdensome and it's mostly fictional. So, in other words, people are mostly looking at the world through "I like" or "I don't like." So what happens in this relaxation into present awareness, in this sense of abiding luminous presence is you don't fixate on the story of me as much.

Connie: How do you move to that place?

Catherine: Well, really through noticing how painful it is to maintain the story. You begin to notice it especially as you begin to spend more time in this relaxed sense of being which doesn't have to have the world be any different than it is. The old story about me was always tiring, but you start to notice it.

Connie: Can you talk some about each of the qualities in your book?

Catherine: Yes, of course. Silence. When I say silence I mean silence of the heart, not cessation of speech, but rather a quietness that co-exists with all activity. And you begin to notice that simple presence through all the business of your day.

Tenderness is the sense of empathy when you are comfortable in your own skin. You feel a connection with all of life and therefore there is a gentleness with all of life.

Next is embodiment. Which is the simple recognition that we are in physical form and that we are dependent on physical reality to sustain us. Walking lightly on the earth. Not just trying to transcend. Not denying this physical reality in favor of spiritual reality. To honor the pure physicality of form.

Connie: Thanks for explaining that.

Catherine: Next is genuineness. Which is living in integrity, being clear and true in your relationships from a place of true humility. Not the humility of trying to be lower than anyone else, but the humility of not needing to be above or below.

Next is discernment, which is clear seeing. When you are at ease in yourself, you are relaxed in presence, you don't need to interpret reality at all. Reality presents itself to you, and you can see it instead of seeing some mirage based on your desires, fears and beliefs.

Then delight, one of my favorites! It is the joy you feel in existence. I really love being here. You tap into feelings you had when you were young. You woke up in the morning excited, just to be alive, to have another day of playing and experiencing. And also in that chapter I speak about pervasive beauty. Where the world looks more and more beautiful. Even the difficult parts have their own strange, horrible beauty. When you are obsessed with neurotic thoughts there is a dullness to the world.

Connie: You talk about gratitude in this chapter, too.

Catherine: Yes, that is true grace, living in gratitude. And the gratitude is the precursor to delight. If you want to be happy in the day start feeling a sense of gratitude for everything that comes your way and everything that is in your field of existence. Just quietly saying "thank you, thank you, thank you." That's a fast track to happiness.

And lastly wonder. And that is the recognition that we are living in a mystery. We don't know much about why we're here or where we are going. In fact we know practically nothing about any of that. We know that we're here and that's pretty wondrous. And as you surrender you begin to enjoy the mystery.

We are all familiar with these seven qualities. As we sink into these qualities they become much more prominent in our life experience and replace fear, greed, lament, anger and so on.

Connie: It's interesting to me how this works, especially the gratitude part.

Catherine: Right everything flows so much more beautifully in life. Most of us have soooo much to be grateful for and we often don't notice it until it's too late.

Connie: Thank you, Catherine.

 

Join Catherine Ingram at New Renaissance Bookshop on Saturday, August 16 for Dharma Dialogues. Call 503-224-4929 or visit www.newrenbooks.com to register. For information about Catherine's other events while she is in Portland go to her website www.dharmadialogues.org.

Connie Hill works at New Renaissance Bookshop and is a local astrologer. She can be reached at 971-244-0567, ext. 2 or gmnite@yahoo.com.